Episode 15: *Replay* Original vs Remake - Justice League

Replay: Justice League

The Version We Should Have Gotten First...

A replay from the original archive! This episode was lost when our early catalogue was removed, and we’re bringing it back for everyone who missed it. 

Same take, same chaos, just freshly reposted.

Transcript

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Welcome to another episode of the Bingel up Podcast, the show where I talk about things I love, the things I hate, and everything in between when binging on anime, books, movies, and TV shows. If you're not familiar with the format, the show will be fit into five categories, which are The Bingers Opinion, Is the Book Better, The Movie vs TV, Originals vs. Remake, and Rose of the Character. For today's episode, the category is Originals vs. Remake, where I'll be comparing the 2021 Zack Snyder's Justice League with the 2017 version of the same name. The Snyder cut is one of the movies of 2021 that I have been waiting for since since it was first announced. This cut has been petitioned practically since the day that the 2017 theatrical version came out. Like the fans were convinced that that Snyder's version would be way better. Personally, I was indifferent, but I wasn't really a fan of the 2017 version, and I only remember seeing it once. So I wasn't really too fussed about it either way, as I'm more of a Marvel girl, but I was curious to see how much of the original film was edited. And that's how this episode came to be. I didn't even blink twice when I found out that the Snyder Cart was four hours long. I just hope it is worth it. Because I actually really like some of the characters. Despite being a Marvel girl, I like some of the DC characters, especially the variety in the strong females. So hopefully, if this movie turns out great, the DC can finally step in the right direction of a cinematic universe of their own. I mean, they have bare characters to work with that are beloved. But since it has been a hot second since I've watched Justice Lee, I'm going to go and start off with the Snyder Cut and finish it off with the 2017 version, and I'll catch you in a sec. Six hours later. When I tell you I'm gone, I'm gone. Now I don't know what was going through these people's minds when they decided to make a completely different movie. There is no resemblance other than a few scenes here and there. Like context is truly a powerful thing. We didn't try to take what he considered the best parts of Snyder's cut and recreate a movie that is basically going nowhere. I feel like the 2017 movie felt like an ending rather than the beginning of Justice League. Seriously, it felt like everything had been wrapped up in an ugly little bow to be shipped off to any Tom Dick and Harry for some quick buck. There was no flow to the movie that would indicate this is the start of a team at all. At this point, I feel like the only thing the 2017 version achieved on its own, in my opinion, was making me like Aquaman. I really didn't rate Aquaman before this. But that could just be because Jason Momoa is just such a lovable guy. And side note, how were there people who couldn't finish Snyder's Cut in one sitting? I didn't even leave for toilet breaks. I was so hooked. But anyway, before I continue, I just want to give a quick spoiler alert. I will be talking about some of the plot points. So please don't be upset if you haven't watched it and I give too much away. But you have been warned. Okay, so I'm gonna start with additional scenes that were added slash developed for Aquaman. So in the 2017 theatrical version, the timeline of Aquaman made no sense to me. I couldn't figure out if Justice League was before or after the solo film. Because I kept asking myself, who gave him the Trident and the Armour? Like in this movie, it seems that Mira gave it, but in Aquaman, the solo movie, it was clearly established that Volko kept it hidden to pass it to Arthur when he was ready to take the throne. And another question that kept coming up was why would he have gone to help Atlantis straight after seeing the parademon's blood on his hands? Like, as far as we know from the solo movie, he has no ties to Atlantis, wants nothing to do with Atlantis. So for Mira to float there and guilt trip Arthur into carrying out the duty that technically shouldn't even be his, considering his half-brother is currently sitting on the throne. So why should he care about any kind of supposed duties he has to a civilization he hates? So it made so much more sense when he got his little pet talk from Valco, the only one he trusts and listens to in Atlantis. He has no connection to Mira as far as we know. So for her to be telling him off the rip of them meeting for the first time that it is his duty and he accepts, under the condition that I'm assuming again, because they didn't make this clear, she gives him his mother's trident and armor. Where did she get the trident from? Volco had it for safekeeping. And they also explained what he was doing at Atlantis in the first place, like constantly being drawn to it wherever he enters the water from. So we see that despite his protest, he subconsciously can't deny his Atlantean bond. And they also managed to explain why the current king didn't care for going after the motherbox in the first place. As far as he was concerned, the world above ground could burn for all he cared. He was already planning to start a war with the humans. So this attack helped him with his propaganda. So it was a win-win for him. He ain't getting involved. And Mira with her powers, yeah, moving like a bloodbender. Where were these powers when you were fighting people that were trying to kill you in the solo movie? But on a less positive note, the CGI on their hair under the water though. Still trash. I cannot. Another quick mention on developed scenes is on the Amazon fight against Steppenwolf. The whole fortress fell off the side of the cliff. Before that, do you know how much I was cussing that they didn't have enough warriors there to defend the motherbox? But then after I saw the whole thing just tumble its way down, I was like, well, I guess it's a good thing they didn't send everyone to defend this thing. But come on. Knowing what they know about the mother boxes, you would think that they would have at least put the fortress in a more convenient location. I mean, really, the side of a cliff. It worked as an amazing shot, but it's so impractical. Imagine if the enemy went for a by sea sneak attack. You wouldn't see it coming. And then for the rest of the army to come charging down when they done already lost the motherbox, you couldn't have already been in the middle of the field waiting for Steppenwolf to come at you. But yeah, I like the addition of the fallen warriors. It really just brings home their sacrifice for their people and essentially the world. And when they bellowed, we have no fear. Chills every time. Moving on to the new scenes and developments. The first one I have to talk about off the bat Victor Stone, aka Cyborg. I can't even describe how much this character did a full 180 in the Snyder Cup. I found Cyborg to be so bland and boring in the 2017 version. I mean, talk about a waste of a character. I did not care for Cyborg. He was not on my radar. Not in Smallville, not in Teen Titans, and certainly not in the 2017 version. But lo and behold, man's integral to the plot, and man has a heart. Who knew? Ash or didn't, the way Weedon went about it. He's now probably one of my favorite characters to be introduced into the DC movies. His story arc was exactly what was needed. I needed to feel a connection with him, and I did. There were so many scenes that were just essential in introducing Victor as one of the central heroes. For starters, going into his background story on how he was a genius, a star athlete, but still kind-hearted and caring enough to break rules, risking getting in trouble to help out his peers. Then we have some dialogue with him and his mother about how his father was never present in any of his football games. But his mom, who is a whole doctor, can make the time for her son. And then this happens right before they get into the car crash and the mother dies, and Victor is close to death. And then we see the somewhat gruesome scene of his dad basically putting the pieces of his human body back together using the motherbox. There was barely any human pieces left. Just leave me dead, please. Leave me dead. I cannot be living as a machine. I cannot do it. He was more machine than man at this point. Did you see how many human parts were left of his body? Barely. Leave me dead. Okay, in the words of Queen Elsa, let it go. He can't even live his life no more. I'll just be thinking, why am I here? I can't go out like this, living the life I used to live. Everyone I know thinks I'm dead. I should have stayed that way. So dad doesn't want to see me when I'm actually alive, but he brings me back to life to do what? You can't even be at one of my games, but you bring me back to life for what? I mean, I get it. His father lost his wife and he couldn't lose his son. But you still weren't at my games though, so and you brought me back to actually spend time with me. I mean, it didn't look like it, so it's just so you could feel better knowing that I was still out there in these streets for you to still be missing my games. Let me go! You know how painful the procedure must have been? Like, beyond cyborg, man's a whole artificial intelligence at this point. Like, where is the human besides a quarter of his head? And why are humans always using powers they don't be understanding? Like his dad had no idea that this could work. For all he knew, he could have turned Victor into Doomsday. He didn't know. He could have created a nuclear bomb and wiped up half the planet. He didn't know. Stop messing with things that you don't understand, okay? We also get a scene where right before they bring Superman back, Victor is given a haunting premonition. The unity completes, the planet gets destroyed, Darkseid is sitting on top of his throne. We'll get to him. Diana is dead on a funeral pyre. Darkseid stabs Arthur with his own trident. Black Suit Superman is in a Batcave cradling the charred corpse of what is assumed to be Lois. And then evil Superman hovering over the ruins of what appears to be the Justice League headquarters, holding Batman's mask with a dead green lantern on the floor. That scene was so epic. It really gave me hope. It gave me some hope for DC's future. This actually managed to set up something that had been hinted at in previous movies, but it slowly starting to build into a future that could be so interesting, like so exciting, and I am here for it. Snyder's car also includes his father's sacrifice. So in the 2017 version, his dad is alive and well, and the relationship also seems to be a lot better at the end. Not sure why, considering he spent most of the time basically calling his dad a monster, but okay. Whereas in the 2021 version, he sacrifices himself to superheat the motherbox so that the team can track its signature to Steppenwolf's stronghold. I think this was a great addition as it ties to the battle Cyborg has when plugged into the motherbox later in the movie, where the boxes create a projection of his family, tricking him into basically dying so that he can be with his family now that he's alone. But it doesn't work because Cyborg realizes he's not alone. I think this addition really brought his father's arc to a full circle as well, as it redeems him in Victor's eyes. As far as Victor was concerned, he never asked to be brought back to life to live with a parent that he doesn't even have a real kind of connection. And he still blames him for his mother's death, but his father's sacrifice, it was saying, I love you. I may not have been around, I may have let you down, and I apologize, you may not have wanted to come back, but I love you always. I may not have shown it before, but this is me showing it now. I thought it was really beautiful and really sad. Victor's story arc as a whole is just so sad. I'm so glad that he has the Justice League as an extended family now because I like the dynamic that he has with The Flash. Like it's building up a sort of bromance in a way for future instalments. I love it. Moving on to Barry Allen, aka The Flash. I feel like he was okay in the 2017 version. I liked his story arc revolving around his dad's incarceration. I'm glad they kept that in. I think it was a great way of looking into Barry's drive and motivation. It was also nice to see their dynamic, especially when his dad is trying to get him to stop coming to see him. I was like, hold up. Don't be telling me not to come visit you. I will never stop coming to see you, mate. Like, you cannot stop me from coming to see you. So talk all you want. You can't tell me what to do. You think you're gonna stop me from seeing you? You're the only parent I have. You want me to just let you rot for something you didn't even do. At this point, I'm thinking of breaking you out, but then you'll be on the run all the time, and that's not the life I want for you. So let me just get my law degree and I will legally bust you out. Trust and believe, I would be doing the same thing if I was Barry. However, what I did not like about Barry's portrayal in the 2017 version was the added quote unquote humor. It was so cringy. I know The Flash is a funny, lighthearted kind of guy, but there is a time and a place, and there is a way of executing. And the reshoots of this quote unquote humor was not it. The brunch scene alone, just thinking about it makes me cringe. And on top of making him more humorous, they then decided to basically make him a wimp. Like, seriously, man, first out and out agreed to go on what Bruce described to be a dangerous mission. Only for him to turn around and be like, I just push people and run. Is that supposed to be cute? I would have looked at him like, why are you wasting my time then? What did you think we were coming here to do? I've got my guns, Diana's got her sword, Cyborg has his whole body. Like, what are you here for? Honestly, they made Barry into a D-list character. How is he hurting the stupid humans who decided not to run when they saw flying demons inhabiting their town in the final battle? Man was a whole steward. But anyway, although Snyder's cut still keeps some of the humor that seems more natural, it also definitely gave him a way more active role, which is actually very integral to the future plots. How are we just gonna remove Barry reversing time? We have a scene where they're about to revive Superman and Barry is trying to explain the electrical current he can produce to power up the cube to revive Superman. In addition, we see the tiniest reversal happen to sync Barry's speed force with the moment the motherbox hits the fluid. Which sets up one of the biggest implications of the DCEU. When Barry's plan to run laps to build up speed force in order to knock Cyborg into the motherbox fails as they miss their window, he breaks his own rule by running so fast that he reverses the world's destruction just before the unity occurs and saves everyone. That's not a minor thing, that's not a side thing. That's not something you just remove. Who thought this was something no one would want to see? Of all the things you removed from Flash, I can forgive you for removing the introduction of Iris West, you know, Barry's future wife. But this? Were you trying to sabotage the future of DC? Because at this point, I'm thinking this is one of the key moments that needed to be seen. Moving on to a quick mention of the characters they removed completely from the 2017 version. So we have Ryan Choi, aka the Atom. It was great to see him, more so because I liked how they introduced a well-known character, once again, setting up future instalments in an organic way. But the one that really blew my mind, Martian Manhunter. A scene between Martha and Lois occurs, and I'm like, I'm not really paying attention to it until it ends with Martha shifting into Martian Manhunter. I squealed like a little girl, and I ain't even ashamed of it. How dare they remove Martian? A whole Martian, a whole original member of Justice League. I personally had hoped to see him in the 2017 version, as the Justice League I grew up with had him as one of the founders of Justice League. So, to my utter surprise, they in fact reveal him there, meaning they had intentions on making him one of the founders. So where was he at? You didn't think to bring in one of the originals because there's no excuse, how dare you? I mean, his role to me was a little bit minimal, I must admit. I wasn't exactly feeling his role in the Snyder cut. Like, man became a whole messenger to move the plot along. But still, he was a part of it and he shouldn't have been removed. Period. Moving on to the villains, one of 2017's biggest letdowns was its villains. Steppenwolf was the same old typical bad guy with mediocre ambitions to rule the world, destroy the world, because he can. It was boring, it was cliche, and he was easy to discard. In the Snyder Cut, Darkseid? Yes. This is how you introduced a villain for the long run. And Steppenwolf's mission to redeem himself was a more developed motivation for attacking Earth than simply just being a power-hungry guy screaming mother at some metal boxes. After rewatching the 2017 version, I realized that Darkseid's name was only mentioned in like a throwaway line, basically there to appease the fans a bit, but it obviously didn't work. Darkseid was so savage. He was like, give me 50,000 more worlds, and then maybe I'll give you an audience. So it's not even guaranteed. And I actually felt bad for Steppenwolf in Snyder's cut. He was hella desperate. He was hella desperate, okay? Begging to be accepted back into Darkseid's good side. And Darkseid didn't even want to hear it. He sent his minion to do the talking. 50,000 worlds, you know. I was thinking, what did he do to be banished so hard that the only way he could come back was if he gave him 50,000 worlds. I mean, obviously it's possible in the DC world, but still, that's a hefty number for you not to reveal to us exactly what he did to deserve this. As a matter of fact, let me look this up. He challenged Darkseid's rule. He's lucky to even be alive. In retrospect, 50,000 worlds is a minor compared to what he could have done. Honestly, you're lucky to be his nephew. Lucky, cuz. If it were me, you would never even see the light of day. Again, I say, Death is too quick for certain types of betrayal, for certain types of wrongdoings, is all I'm saying. If it were me. But yeah, they also somehow managed to make him more childlike to me in a way. I don't know. I just be getting almost teenager rebelling and trying to prove to his parents type of vibe with him. That's probably why I felt so bad for him. Oh well, he's a whole dead now. You served your purpose, I guess. Dark side now has the location of the anti-life equation. So you can rest now. Not that you have much of a choice. And then we have one of the biggest changes, I personally think, which was everything surrounding Superman's future, Lois, and the nightmare scene. Let me just say this real quick. The Lois scenes in the Snyder Cut, besides the one with Martian Manhunter, I didn't need. I understand she's grieving. I understand that. Don't get me wrong. But focusing on it for so long. I kind of preferred how they portrayed her trying to live her life without her man in the 2017 version. That's all I'm saying. So the nightmare scene is a post-apocalyptic sequence where Bruce and Victor's premonitions come true. Batman's leading Cyball, the Flash, Mirror, Deathstroke, and Joker of all people. Now, Joker plays an important role in this version, having stolen the motherbox that allows the Flash to travel back in time to warn Bruce. Now, I'm assuming at this point Darkseid used the anti the anti-life equation on Superman because Lois Lane dying cannot be the reason Superman decides to go evil. There has to be more. One minute he's holding the corpse of Lois, the next minute he's killing every Tom Dick and Harry that's looking at him sideways. Like with all the values and lessons and responsibilities that have been thrust upon you by your human parents, you just go throw that away and destroy the planet you once loved. For a girl that ain't even your wife. So what if she died of old age? Then what? You're gonna still go on a rampage? Kill the scientists and doctors who didn't invent immortality. Chad, pull yourself together. Think about it. Wonder Woman lost the man she loved. She didn't go all crazy on the world. That clearly took her man away. Batman lost his parents. His whole parents decided to channel his wealth for good. So you flip out when you lose your girlfriend, but you don't flip out for the man who raised you. Your human papa died in a whole hurricane and you didn't flip out. And I'm pretty sure Lois has some family members out there in the world, so you didn't think twice. You'd even blink to destroy it. And what about his mum? Saving Marta was a huge priority for you before that you were willing to risk your life. So where's this love now? You don't think to keep your cool for Miss Marta, the woman who raised you as her own, who cared for you, nourished you, and all of that jazz. I'm sorry, but Lois is not worth destroying the planet for. Like she's really not, so it better be because of the anti-life cohesion. Speaking of Marta, one thing that they had in both movies that I have mentioned this in the episode of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I really need to say this because it's still so baffling to me. Martha got evicted. How are superheroes and their families ever struggling for money? Now I know this is the DCEU. The superheroes actually make a conscious effort to protect their secret identities. Okay, cool. However, I will require some compensation of some sort after my death to ensure my family is okay. Even if it means that after my death, my identity has to be revealed. My family better get a hefty pension payout of some sort, is all I'm saying. And then Bruce over there with his rich self, he wanted to honor Superman by setting up a team, but couldn't set up a bank account for Martha. Left her homeless on the street. You done bonded with Superman for five seconds, talking about saving Martha, as you were literally about to kill him and you couldn't have paid off the debt with a little pocket change. Only decides to do it after Superman. Brought back to life. You think I'll be cool with you after I found out you let my mum be kicked out? Your head. You have no shame. All that money and no shame. Now I'm gonna say that after watching both movies, I also realized I might not be a fan of Superman. Like, don't get me wrong, I think Henry Cavill is the perfect actor to play the role. However, I'm gonna need the writers to give this character personality, is what it is. So one of my girls tried to explain that there are fans who believe that he acts meek and boring and timid and whatnot as Clark Kent because he is imitating, I guess, what he believes humans to be like. And I'm like, okay, let's say that is the case. Although you would think that he'd never been around humans in his life, considering he was raised by humans, but okay. So what's the excuse of him being boring as Superman? Could they not give him some kind of personality other than I can't even say Boy Scout, honestly? That's disrespecting the scouts of our world. Like they do good and they still manage to maintain a personality. Like, just dry toast. That's what he is. I just feel like he's just so one-dimensional to me. I cannot. He comes on the screen and I'm like, okay, cool, fight's going to be over in one punch. Now what? The only time I've seen him with any kind of emotion that lets me into who he is. One, when his dad died. And two, when he killed Zorg. So basically, I have to wait until someone connected to him dies before I see any kind of personality. And maybe it's because I haven't watched, I will admit, I haven't watched Man and Steel, but it doesn't look appealing to me because I feel like he's boring to me. I mean, even his indestructibility annoys me. Okay, we get it. Like nothing on this planet can kill you. Can we move on now? And yeah, Kryptonite can kill him, cool, but crypto doesn't grow on trees. So I want to see him struggle and come out on top. But if he's coming out on top from the jump, why are you even here? Is all I'm saying. I'm sorry for just going a bit on a rant about Superman, but this movie made me realize that I'm I might not really care for Superman. Like I'm good on Superman. I fully understand that he's integral to the team, the muscles as it were. But other than coming through to end fights in a flash, I could do with less of him. Unless there's a personality there that is just not being conveyed, please let me know. I want to be wrong. I want to see this alleged personality. I really do, or I would not have said anything and kept my mouth shut. Prove me wrong, is all I'm saying. I'm pretty sure he was funny in the cartoons. I'm pretty sure I liked him in the cartoons. So why am I not feeling him now? Is all I'm saying. So, final verdict. If it's not obvious by now, I choose the 2021 Snyder Cut, which I consider to be the original, over the 2017 version. Period. They are two completely different movies. And Snyder's cut gets me excited for what could be. Snyder has actually apparently already given some spoilers on how he planned the sequels to go. I will not be reading them because I want to be pleasantly surprised. And Warner Bros, make the sequels. I'll wait. I waited four years for this. I can wait four more. But it better be on point. And that's all for today. Thanks for listening. Hope you enjoyed the show. Let me know what you think of Snyder's Cut andor the 2017 Justice League. Which one is your favorite? And as always, if you have any requests or suggestions on anything you'd like me to watch or read, please be sure to hit me up. You can find me on Instagram or Twitter at BingerLurt Pod or on my Facebook page at the BingerLuck Podcast. I'm out and I'll catch you in a sec.